0959e A description of the Gwentian dialect by Pererindodwr in the year
in 1856 in the periodical “The Cambrian Journal”. (Gwentian is South-eastern
Welsh, that is, the form of the language spoken in the former Sir Fynwy and Sir
Forgannwg, Monmouthshire and Glamorganshire) “I will now endeavour to ascertain
what is meant by “The Gwenhwyseg” or “Dialect of Gwent.” It may be supposed
sometimes, when so much is said about the Gwenhwyseg, that it is a language
distinct from the Cymraeg...”
http://www.kimkat.org/amryw/1_gwenhwyseg/gwenhwyseg_gwentian_dialect_pererindodwr_1856_0959e.htm
0001z Yr Hafan / Home Page
..........1864e Y Fynedfa yn Saesneg / The
Gateway in English
....................0010e Y Barthlen / Siteplan
............................0223e Y Gymraeg / The Welsh
Language
.......................................1004e Y Wenhwyseg - Y Dudalen Gyfeiriadol / The Gwentian
Dialect - Orientation Page
..............................................Y Tudalen Hwn / This Page
|
|
Gwefan
Cymru-Catalonia |
|
(delw 0420)
(delw 0424)
(Additions or my comments in
brackets and orange letters. Some typing mistakes yet to be hunted down and
eliminated. The spelling in English and Welsh is the same as in the original)
(We have omitted the
text at the beginning of this section - three pages - remarks on the eisteddfod
tradition in Morgannwg).
(Note: (1) in the lists
of examples below, where the original has ‘same’, I have repeated the phrase.
(2) After the initials representing the zones that Pererindodwr has delineated,
I have added a indication of the zone for clarity’s sake. For example, the
author has simply “E.”, but I have added (East = the area east of the Rhymni river)
(3) In addition, I have altered slightly his order of zones in the examples,
which in the original is M / E / W / D / P. (Middle, Eastern, Western, Dyved,
Pure). I have placed E first to make a more logical continuum from east to west
- E / M / W / D / P.)
____________________________________________
The
Cambrian Journal, Volume 3, 1856, pp305-314
(delw 3963)
(tudalen 305)
A TREATISE ON THE
CHIEF PECULIARITIES THAT DISTINGUISH THE CYMRAEG, AS SPOKEN BY THE INHABITANTS
OF GWENT AND MORGANWG RESPECTIVELY,
BY PERERINDODWR
INTRODUCTION
Inasmuch as the subject under consideration bears so closely upon the Welsh language
in general, I feel it incumbent to lay down in this introduction a few
observations respecting its antiquity, as well as the similarity which exists
between it and the dialect of
____________________________________________
(delw 3964)
(tudalen 306)
____________________________________________
(delw 3965)
(tudalen 307)
____________________________________________
(delw 3966)
(tudalen 308)
____________________________________________
(delw 3967)
(tudalen 309)
____________________________________________
(delw 3968)
(tudalen 310)
____________________________________________
(delw 3969)
(tudalen 311)
____________________________________________
(delw 3970)
(tudalen 312)
____________________________________________
(delw 3971)
(tudalen 313)
____________________________________________
(delw 3972)
(tudalen 314)
I am indebted to Mr. J. Jenkins, of Morlaix (lately of Maes y Cwmwr),
for a great many of the preceding sentiments, which are scattered throughout
his letters in the Gral, and in his An A, B, K. I also received assistance from
writers in Seren Gomer. Ere I close these observations, I will confidently say
there is not so much resemblance between any other two languages under the sun
as there is between the two in question; and that the difference which exists
at the present day has been occasioned by the distance of one country from
another... (We have omitted the text
following this - nine pages referring to the Breton language).
____________________________________________
The Cambrian
Journal, Volume 3, 1856, pp36-40
(delw 3973)
(tudalen 36)
A
TREATISE ON THE CHIEF PECULIARITIES THAT DISTINGUISH THE CYMRAEG, AS SPOKEN BY
THE INHABITANTS OF GWENT AND MORGANWG RESPECTIVELY,
BY PERERINDODWR
(Continued from page 314,
vil. ii)
THE GWENHWYSEG, OR DIALECT OF GWENT
I will now
endeavour to ascertain what is meant by “The Gwenhwyseg” or “Dialect of Gwent.”
It may be
supposed sometimes, when so much is said about the Gwenhwyseg, that it is a
language distinct from the Cymraeg. Iolo Morgannwg, at page 20 of his Poems
Lyric and Pastoral, thus observes of the dialect of Gwent, or Siluria:-
____________________________________________
(delw 3974)
(tudalen 37)
“The originals of these Triades are in
the Silurian . The Silurian differs, in many particulars, from
the Biblical dialect of modern writers.”...
(We have omitted the
two paragaphs that followed)
With respect to Iolo’s statement that the Gwenhwyseg differs greatly
from the Biblical style, the same may be predicated of the Dyvedeg (the dialect of Dyfed = south-west
____________________________________________
(delw 3975)
(tudalen 38)
not written in the dialect of Dyved, or of Powys, with as much truth as that it
is not written in the Gwenhwyseg.
(A footnote adds: “The
language of the Welsh Bible approaches nearer to the Southern than to the
Northern dialects of the Cymraeg - D.S.E.)
In the preface to Cyfrinach y Beirdd (‘the secret of
the poets’),
p.5, Iolo Morganwg thus remarks:-
“Hardly anything may be met with in Cyfrinach y Beirdd that is not tolerably
pure Gwenhwyseg; - much purer even than anything found in the Welsh dialects of
the other parts of
If so, the Gwenhwyseg contained a multiplicity of compound words, such as cadarnfarn,
cywirserch, ystyrbwyll, &c., &c. Nevertheless, it is not to be
believed that the language of Gwent was other than a spoken dialect of the
Cymraeg, throughout the middle ages, and still more recently, was somewhat
unsteady in its character and principles. And the same may be said of it even
to this day. It has not at present any fixed alphabet, or any system for the
orthographical construction of its words, founded upon etymology and
composition; for the most learned Welsh scholars differ greatly one from the
other in their mode of forming the alphabet; and as to the ways of deriving
words, they are endless. Accordingly, the Cymraeg of Iolo Morganwg is (or was)
also his Cymraeg. And many other authors may be mentioned , who cross one
another, and whose inventions and fancies have no end. But, withal, the old
language has not yet attained any fixed and secure anchorage.
The only peculiarities of the Gwenhwyseg are its shortness, elegance, and the
clearness of its composition; which, undoubtedly, is owing to the fact that the
inhabitants of Siluria were more heroic and courageous than the inhabitants of
any other part of
____________________________________________
(delw 3976)
(tudalen 39)
adversity.
How many orthographical changes soever may be seen in old Welsh manuscripts, and
however varied are the present modes of spelling the ancient language, yet it
cannot be believed for a moment that the language of Gwent, like those of
Cornwall and Armorica, possesses a vocabulary peculiar to itself; for, in
respect of grammatical construction, the language of Gwent was the same as that
of Powys, or of any other part of Wales; its distinctiveness consisted in its
provincial conditions and cultivated elegance.
That the Gwenhwyseg is old, may be proved by the antiquity of the Cymraeg in
general; that it was under cultivation from an early period, may be proved from
the following facts:-
After the departure of the Romans from the
According to the testimony of the Roman writers, Siluria considerably surpassed
the other provinces of Cymru in polite attainments, as well as in patriotic
energy. It is clear that the inhabitants of this province
____________________________________________
(delw 3977)
(tudalen 40)
added much
to the knowledge of their tribe from the learning of the Romans, in which the
bards seemed especially to have improved. It was, undoubtedly, from that source
that a knowledge of the poetical quantities was derived, - a knowledge which
has never to this day been possessed by the bards of any other
After Arthur had been slain in the battle of Camlan, the Round Table was placed
under the protection of Urien Rheged, at Aberllychwr Castle (Aberllwchwr), which
was his principal palace: it was thence, about two hundred years subsequently,
removed to Caerwynt (Caer-went); and
more than a hundred years after that, it was restored to its primitive state at
Caerleon-upon-Usk (Caerllion), under
the patronage of Iestyn ab Gwrgan, who placed it in his new castle upon the
Taf, in the royal town of Cardiff (Caer-dydd). See the Preface to Cyfrinach y Beirdd, by
Iolo Morgannwg, pp. 8, 9.
In concluding this account of the Gwenhwyseg, I fell convinced that I have
adduced proof enough of what I had asserted before, namely, that the Gwenhwyseg
is the same as the Cymraeg in general, - only that the opportunities which the
inhabitants of Gwent had for learning excelled those of any other province in
____________________________________________
The Cambrian Journal, Volume 3, 1856. Section 2 pp239-253
(delw 3978)
(tudalen 239)
A
TREATISE ON THE CHIEF PECULIARITIES THAT DISTINGUISH THE CYMRAEG, AS SPOKEN BY
THE INHABITANTS OF GWENT AND MORGANWG RESPECTIVELY,
BY PERERINDODWR
(Continued from page 40)
THE DIALECT OF MORGANWG
____________________________________________
(delw 3979)
(tudalen 240)
____________________________________________
(delw 3980)
(tudalen 241)
____________________________________________
(delw 3981)
(tudalen 242)
THE PECULIARITIES THAT CHARACTERIZE THE
DIALECTS OF GWENT AND MORGANWG, AS SPOKEN BY THE PRESENT INHABITANTS.
That provinces
differ in the mode of articulating, and in the use of the same words, is clear,
as may be seen in the variety which exists between Gwent and Dyved, and between
Deheubarth and Gwynedd. It is not unusual to see a lay peasant from Gwynedd
unable to converse with a man of similar character from Dyved. The acw, efo,
cethin &c. , of the Gwyneddian, and the practice of dragging his words
to the point of his tongue, into a kind o lisp, his slow mode of speaking,
together with a provincial accent, render his speech so strange to the ear of a
Dimetian, that the latter cannot, without considerable difficulty, understand
what the North-man says. On the other hand, the thin voice, the lively and
abrupt
____________________________________________
(delw 3982)
(tudalen 243)
utterance
of the Dimetian, together with his lweth, ymbeidis, siompol, &c.,
and his peculiar accent, cause his language to be rather unintelligible to the
inhabitants of Gwynedd.
A provincial dialect may be divided into several heads, but in order to obviate
confusion, I shall consider the point briefly under the four following heads.
First,- The different position of letters in words, such as Lloi for Lloiau,
Tai for Teiau, Tade for Tadau, Gweitho for Gweithio,
&c.
Secondly, - Change of terminations, and varied plurals, as cerwn for cerddwn,
id for aid, on for ion, offeirid (sometimes ffeiredi)
amd meibon, for offeiriaid and meibion, pregethwyrs for
pregethwyr, sowdwyrs for sowdwyr, (soldiers) (A footnote adds: Quod illi
[Celtici] Soldurios appellant. caes. - ED, CAMB. JOUR.)
Thirdly,- Difference of pronunciation. All the provinces of Wales
differ greatly in their local pronunciation; where it is said caseg in
one district, it is pronounced casig in another; also tattws instead
of tatto, Magws for Margaret; Palws, Malws, Mali (A footnote adds: Màli and Màlen are common in
Dyved.-S.E.), for
Mary, &c.
Fourthly, - the adoption of words in one district that are obsolete in another:
so also dannod (=
scold), edliw (= scold), - erfin, maip (= turnips), - ewn, hy (= bold, cheeky),
&c.
Now to the subject. The difference which characterizes the dialects of Gwent
and Morganwg, as spoken in the present day by the people, is very slight;
consequently there are not many peculiarities for us to notice here. It is not
easy, indeed, to perceive that there exists between them any particular
difference, for the inhabitants are near to one another, and pursue the same
avocations, which tend to unite them more closely in the peculiarities of their
language than if they had been at a greater distance the one from the other,
and less similar in their pursuits.
If a subject had been proposed with a view of showing the difference between
Gwent and Dyved, and between Deheubarth and Gwynedd, it would have afforded a
scope for noticing a great many of the peculiarities that distinguish
____________________________________________
(delw 3983)
(tudalen 244)
the
dialects of those countries respectively. But though the field on the present
occasion is so limited, I will endeavour to creep towards some plan, whereby I
may show what I can of the characterisitcs of the dialects of Gwent and
Morgannwg.
Perhaps my best plan will be to divide the two countries into three parts, and
to endeavour to find the language of both provinces one and the same in the
middle; it will then be easy to distinguish the eastern extremes of Morganwg. I
will suppose (the
numbering is not in the original),
(1) that the eastern line belonging to the central part runs from the mouth of
the river Rhymney by Tre Eleirch, (three miles eastward of Cardiff,) to a
little eastward of Coed y Cymmer,
(2) and that the western line belonging to the central part runs from the
Merthyr Mawr to Aberdare, and that the eastern line of the eastern division
terminates where the Cymraeg ceases in Menevia [= Gwent],
(3) and that the western line of the western division terminates at the
boundaries of Caermarthenshire.
In arranging the peculiarities of the Cymraeg for the three said divisions, I
will also exhibit the examples in the phraseology of Dyved, with the view of
showing in what respect that varies from the dialects of Gwent and Morganwg. I
will, moreover, write them in pure language wherever it happens to be impure
through local corruption. In this way the Cymro will be enabled to see a great
variety in the language a spoken in the present day in
(A footnote adds: “M.
denotes the Middle division, E. the Eastern, W. the Western, D. Dyved, and P.
the Cymraeg in its purity. Let this be borne in mind throughout all the
examples in the following pages.”)
(NOTE: The following examples, and the comments made by ‘S.E.’, need at times
to be treated with a certain amount of scepticism!)
Example 1 (a good day to you)
|
|
(1) E.
(East = the
area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
The pronunciation of the central division is the same as that of the eastern, in
the above salutation, but in the
____________________________________________
(delw 3984)
(tudalen 245)
western
division it approaches the thinness of the Demetian accent. The foregoing words
are not met with in all the divisions; and prydnawn da chi (a good afternoon to you),
occurs also in all, though it is not much used in the division of D (Dyfed) is.
Again, Diwedydd (Diwedd y dydd) da chi (a good afternoon to you) is of frequent
occurrence throughout Gwent and Morganwg, but the expression is quite obsolete
in Dyved, and it can scarcely be understood by one out of ten of the illiterate
inhabitants of that province.
There is another mode of temporal salutation in Gwentllwg, which is not in
general use in any other part of
Blwydd newydd dda chi (i chwi) (a good new year to you),
priodas dda (good
wedding),
siwrnai dda (good
journey),
newydd da (good
news),
luck dda (good
luck). (A footnote
adds: “Lwc dda is the Cardiganshire pronunciation. -S.E” - this pribably means
that “luck” represents the modern English pronunciation, which would be spelt
“lyc” in Welsh), &c., are the same throughout
In Gwentllwg rhwydeb i chi is often used for rhwydd-deb i chi (success to you)
(rwytab would be the
local form in fact),
or rhwydd hynt i waith (easy road, trouble-free journey to the work)
(shouldn’t this be
‘rhwydd hynt i’r gwaith’? The local form would be ‘rwydd ‘ynt’) or taith (journey) &c.
Example 2 (where are you going?)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Very frequently it is said throughout Gwent and Morganwg,
I ble ti’n myned? (This would in fact be ‘mynad’).
Ble’r âi di? (A
footnote adds: “This appears to be a mistake for Ble chi’n cadw? (where are you
keeping? or, where do you live?) a phrase often used in
(In fact, ei is often ai
in Gwentian, so Ble’r ai
di is in correct. It is in standard Welsh I ba le’r ei di - where are you going?)
Ble’r ewch chi?
But we never hear Ble chi’n gado? in the south-east
of Deheubarth, as we do in Dyved.
____________________________________________
(delw 3985)
(tudalen 246)
Example 3 (where have you come from /
where did you come from?)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the
area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the
area between the Rhymni river and Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the
area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed =
south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in
its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
The above questions are very often asked without the preposition o, as Ble
dethoch chwi? There is another inquiry in the past tense of the verb bod,
which is thus used:-
Example 4 (where have you been / where
were you?)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Example 5 (It’s very cold weather)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
If the weather be fair, the expression throughout Gwent and Morganwg is, Mai’n
dywydd fine uncomon, but this is never heard in Dyved. If the atmosphere be
close it is said, mai’n dywydd mwrn iawn, and mai’n
fwrn uncomon; also, Mai’n dywydd moglyd uncomon, and mai’n
dywydd brwnt uncomon.
Example 6 (She’s a very beautiful girl)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
The above import of the word budr is sadly misplaced. Its real meaning
is dirty or loathsome; highly complimentary to the fair sex! The
expression is heard in various forms; thus merch led lân yw hi; merch gryn
____________________________________________
(delw 3986)
(tudalen 247))
lân yw
hi, and merch
bert yw hi.The last adjective is very often used in Dyved. The same words
are employed throughout all the above divisions to denote the quality of
anything created or made.
(In standard Welsh
glân = pure, clean; in the south it is also ‘beautiful, pretty, fair’. In the
north and in standard Welsh ‘budr’ = dirty. In the south the word for dirty is
‘brwnt’, and ‘budr’ is used as an intensifier, rather as in English terribly,
awfully, dead, etc. - awfully pretty, dead pretty. In the spoken Welsh in both
north and south, budr > budur)
Example 7 (Go to the market to buy veal)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
In Gwent and
Morganwg they often say, cerwch, dos, cera; the two latter words are
very frequently employed in every case of a command in Gwentllwg. In the western
division they say, when haste is enjoined, Pant a chi.(in fact, Bant â chi).
This expression would be scarcely understood in any part of Gwent.
Example 8 (Hurry up, and come back at
once)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
The words clau and cloi are used throughout Morganwg, and they are known in all
Gwent, though not in use. The word brys is also known in both provinces, as is
buan, and the two are very frequently enployed, but not in such sentences as
the above. Example, - Brysiwch Tomos mai bron nos. Pryd dewch chwi’n ol? Yn
fuan, &c, (dewch
chwi would be rather dewch chi)
Example 9 (go to the house)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
____________________________________________
(delw 3987)
(tudalen 248)
The excellent old
word idd is still
found in Gwent; and is in constant use in Gwentllwg, even in the discourse of
the most illiterate of the inhabitants. The words has of late been very
generally employed by Welsh writers; and wherever dd is wanted in a symphonic
arrangement by the bards, the word idd is placed in the concatenation. I’w
cannot be pluralised without being reduced into its root; as i ei dad,
plural i eu tad; but idd is rendered into iddei in the
singular possessive, and into iddeu in the plural. (In fact, to his / to her / to
its - iddi - is the same as to their - iddi) The words mad (??) and odd (= from) are quite
obsolete in Gwent and Morganwg.
Example 10 (mind your business)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
An unusual corruption has crept into the above phrase throught Gwent and
Morganwg. The word business has ascended the throne, and it would be
difficult to meet with a person in all the country who can turn the expression
into Welsh. Mindwch eich bisnis. Gofalwch am eich achos, neu eich
galwad; cera a dos o bothdy dy fisnis; dos is correct, but bothdy
is only a corruption of o amgylch, and o bob tu, &c.
It would be endless work to give instances of this corruption, for Menevia and
Morganwg have appropriated the word business as much as the English.
Example 11 (What’s the bad taste that can I
taste on ths meat?)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Mynwy is extremely
fond of applying the word clywed to the sense of taste. If anything
omits a bad odour, the people of Gwent clywed (hear) it. If any food or
drink be agreeable to the palate, they say one to
____________________________________________
(delw 3988)
(tudalen 249)
another
they never clywed anything better, &c. This use of the word reaches
the central divison, but is never heard by the inhabitants of the western part.
(A footnote adds: “Clywed,
decidely, is the word employed in Dyved. And this is quite idiomatic; the word
clywed being used for all the senses, except seeing, in most of the Celtic
dialects. - S.E.)
Example 12 (Siôn, how are you, how is
Siân?)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) Same
very nearly (i.e.
very nearly the same as the next example; in the original text, the ‘east’
sentences come after the ‘middle’ sentences) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and Pen-y-bont
ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Here, again, there is a wide field to travers. In Gwent and the middle
division, if the person accosted enjoys tolerably good health, the answer will
be iawnda; if worse, it will be tost iawn, or brwnt digynig.
Sâl and clâf are never heard in Gwent and the
central division, though the inhabitants understand the meaning of the words
pretty well. Neither is iawnda or iawndda to be met
with within the confines of Dyved, and very seldom in the western division. Harty
and n’ail ile (i.e. yn ail i le) is the answer in Dyved and sometimes one hears shwt i chi? i chi’n dda iawn (how are you? are you very well?) there
also.
(A footnote adds: ‘Rwy’n weddol, or yn ganolig, or yn symol, is much more
common in Dyved. “Right harty, thanky” is the Venedotian phrase.-S.E.)
Iawnda,
tost iawn,
harty,
canolig,
sâl,
clâf, &c.
are employed, upon the whole, oftener in the western division than in Gwent and
Dyved. The word digynnyg (di-cyd-dyg) is a very rustic one
(A footnote adds: Digynnig
- Not so rustic. The word is heard every day in Dyved; and its meaning, as
understood there, is not “void of trial or attempt,” but incomparable,
matchless or unequalled. “Merch lân digynnyg” is, therefore, equivalent to a
paragon of beauty. - (See Pughe’s Dict. sub voce.) - S.E. )
its meaning
being void of
___________________________________________
(delw 3989)
(tudalen 250)
trail or
attempt. In the
face of such meaning, what sense is there in merch lân ddigynnyg, or clâf
tost, or brwnt digynnyg?
Example 13 (There’s an election this year,
and Edwards is canvassing, and all the gentry are voting for him)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Great many phrases like these may be culled out of the conversation of the people
of Gwent and Morganwg, and it would be difficult to decide whether in Gwent or
Morganwg is the greatest corruption, and which of the two countries has
received most English words.
It is certain that in the sequestered agricultural districts a purer dialect is
spoken than in the vicinities of railroads and canals. There is less English
mixed with the Cymraeg of Gwentllwg than there is with that of the country
along the railway from Newport to Tredegar, and along the canal from the same
place to Fenni, &c.
In like manner may be contrasted the respective dialects of the people from
Llantrisant to Aberddawen, and the banks of the Tav from Cardiff to Merthyr, or
from Pen y bont ar Ogwr to Aberafon and the banks of Tawy.
There are often works and villages along railways and canals, whither resort
the Englishman, the Irishman and the Scot, who speak English, and mock the
language and manners of the Cymro.
They also come into the country with implements having each a name; and they
treat the Welshman with incivility for daring to speak his native tongue in his
presence. Then an attempt is made to talk English with the strangers; and as
the illiterate Cymro has no designations for one-half of the implements used in
the machinery, &c., the consequence is that Saxon names diversify the
Cymraeg throughout all the districts aforesaid; and, unless an English-Welsh
dictionary be soon published, which shall receive the approbation
___________________________________________
(delw 3990)
(tudalen 251)
of the literati
of the Cymru (sic),
the English language must needs succeed to the monarchical throne in all the
works (= the industrialised valleys and uplands of the
south-east).
The moroseness of the Saxon, as well as his ambitions desires, are the same now
as they ever were; and insomuch as the generality of the Cymry have no names
for implements, &c., ready at hand, and observe that the English have them,
the same dispiritedness and dejection lay hold of them in respect of their
language, as what seized their ancestors in respect of their country, when
their third Llewelyn fell in the cantred of Buallt, A.D. 1290-2.
Example 14 (Twm, were you in the quarry
today? Yes-I-was, and I brought a good load from there)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) Tomos, buaist ti
yn y gloddfa heddyw? |
Example 15 (Have you finished sowing
wheat? Yes, we finished yesterday)
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
Example 16 (Have you gathered in harvest?
Yes )
|
|
(1) E. (East = the area east of the Rhymni river) |
|
|
(2) M. (Middle, = the area between the Rhymni river and
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
|
|
(3) W. (West = the area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
|
|
(4) D. (Dyfed = south-west Wales) |
|
|
(5) P. (= “Cymraeg in its purity”, that is, Standard Welsh) |
___________________________________________
(delw 3991)
(tudalen 252)
The word cywain is
found in Gwent in its corrupt form cwin,
but they never say there, Yr ydym wedi cywain, the word used being cael;
but on the day of the cael they say, Yr im ni’n myned i gwin heddy.
Looking upon this field as a very diversified one, I d o not consider it
necessary to pursue the foregoing order any further, though I might do so so
long as memory holds out. In this place I shall arrange the words peculiar to
the three divisions, and those of Gwynedd, for the sake of variety, in parallel
columns: -
(NOTE: The following
table, and the comments made by ‘S.E.’, need to be treated with a certain amount
of scepticism!)
|
W.
(West = the
area west of Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr / Cwm |
M.
(Middle, =
the area between the Rhymni river and Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr) |
E. (East = the
area east of the Rhymni river) |
Gwynedd |
|
|
|
|
|
|
âth |
ath,
for aeth |
âth (= fright) |
arswyd
(= fright) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
tacu |
tadcu |
tadcu |
taid
(= grandfather) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
teulu |
teulu |
teulu |
tylwyth
(= family) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
dodi |
dodi |
dodi |
rhoddi
(= to give) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
mangu |
mangu |
mamgu |
nain
(= grandmother) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
crotes,
rhoces, and scenes |
crotis |
crotes |
same |
|
|
|
|
|
|
crwt and rhocyn |
crwt |
crwt |
same |
|
|
|
|
|
|
smeityn |
smityn |
smityn |
hawg,
yr hawg (= a while) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
lled hynod |
lled od |
lled od |
go hynod (=
quite strange) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
gwrol |
gwrol |
gwrol |
glew (=
brave) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
llawer iaw (sic) |
llawer iawn |
llaweriawl (sic) |
gryn lawr (=
very many) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
rhwydddeb (rhwydd-deb) |
rhwydeb |
rhwydeb |
ffyniant |
|
|
|
|
|
|
sythu |
sythu |
sythu |
fferi
(= freeze, become very cold) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
digrif |
dimofal |
dimwfal |
ysmala |
|
|
|
|
|
|
ffin |
perth unberth |
perth ymberth |
gwahanglawdd |
|
|
|
|
|
|
llyn pysgod, fishpond |
pysgodlyn |
pysgodlyn |
pysgodlyn |
|
|
|
|
|
|
coff hau |
coff ha’ |
coff ha’ |
coff hau, crybwyll |
|
|
|
|
|
|
bara càn, Gwenith (= bara gwenith) |
bara càn |
bara càn |
bara
gwyn (Footnote: Bara
peillied the people of Gwynedd call wheat bread.-S.E.) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
brâs, tew |
brâs |
brâs |
tew |
|
pen draw |
pen hwnt |
pen hwnt |
pen draw |
|
ffolcyn |
inislinit |
inislinit |
ffolddyn |
|
|
|
|
|
|
trysau |
tyrfau, trysau |
tyrfau, trysau |
taranau (=
thunderclaps) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
lleched |
llechid |
llechid |
llâch, mellt (=
lightning flashes) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
treised |
trisad |
trisad |
aber
(Footnote: Anner is
the Dimetian word; heffer the Venedotian.-S.E.) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
teliaidd |
teliaidd |
teliaidd |
taclusaidd |
____________________________________________
(delw 3992)
(tudalen 253)
|
|
|
|
|
|
teisen freu |
tisen
froi (in
fact, this would be tishan froi) |
tisen
froi (in
fact, this would be tishan froi) |
teisen frau, anaml (= infrequent) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
tyle |
tyle
(in fact, this
would be tyla) |
tyle
(in fact,
this would be tyla) |
rhiw
(Footnote: Rhiw in
Dyved, and gallt in Gwynedd.-S.E.) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
ca’ |
ca’ |
ca’ |
cae, a field |
|
|
|
|
|
|
pound (= pownd), pwys |
pound (= pownd) |
pound (= pownd) |
pwys |
|
|
|
|
|
|
cariter |
caritor |
caritor |
caritor |
|
|
|
|
|
|
winch |
pydew |
pydew |
pydew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
cowrw |
cywrw |
cywrw |
cyfrwy |
|
|
|
|
|
|
diod |
cwrw |
cwrw |
diod
rhiw ( Footnote: In Gwynedd,
diod is applied to any drink; cwrw to ale, or beer..-S.E.) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
haidd, barlys |
haidd |
haidd |
haidd |
|
|
|
|
|
|
bachgen |
bachgan |
bachgan |
bachgenyn |
|
|
|
|
|
|
tón, gwndwn |
tòn |
tón (sic) |
gwyndon
(Footnote: More commonly
tyndir.-S.E.) |
____________________________________________
The Cambrian Journal, Volume 3, 1856, pp306-314
(delw 3993)
(tudalen 36)
A TREATISE ON THE
CHIEF PECULIARITIES THAT DISTINGUISH THE CYMRAEG, AS SPOKEN BY THE INHABITANTS
OF GWENT AND MORGANWG RESPECTIVELY.
BY PERERINDODWR
(Continued from Vol.
III, page 253)
PECULIAR
PHRASEOLOGIES
Menevia and Morganwg vary particularly in their mode of designating persons. In
the middle and eastern divisions it is very seldom that an individual is called
by his proper name, but they begin with one man, and join to him his immediate
ancestors as far as the fifth degree; thus Twm Shôn, Harri Twm Shôn, Wil
Harri Twm Shôn, Dai Wil Harri Twm Shôn, and Rhys Dai Wil Harri Twm Shôn.
The names of the women are regulated in exactly the same way. This usage causes
a great confusion in the names of individuals.
Not unfrequently are persons found in Gwentllwg with only two names; but for
the most part this is an interruption of the appellative lineage. Again, may be
seen two brothers by the same parents, who call themselves by different names.
For instance, if the above Rhys had a brother of the name of Harri,
the latter, perhaps, would be called Harri Rhys, whilst Rhys would
style himself Rhys Harri, supposing that Wil Harri was his
grandfather. (Thai is,
the father is called Rhys and the grandfather is Harri: one son - Harri - adds
his father’s name and is Harri Rhys; the other son - Rhys - adds his
grandfather’s and is Rhys Harri)
Thus the mode of naming the people is subject to the greatest
disorder; and since the parish registers are full of this confusion, the state
of genealogy in Gwent is extremely critical. It must be borne in mind that this
usage is hardly perceptible on the western side of the river Tâf, in Morganwg.
There is, also, throught Gwent and Morganwg, a peculiar mode of distinguishing
the condition of persons in regard to their marriage, or widowhood. When a
female is seen at hand, it is asked,
“Pwy yw y ferch-neu-wraig eco (accw)?” and,
“Pwy yw y gwr-neu-was eco?”
____________________________________________
(delw 3994)
(tudalen 37)
And when there is a desire to accost, or call the attention of some stranger,
it is said,
“Hei! y y gwr-neu-was,” and
“Hei! y ferch-neu-wraig.”
This distinction is very fair, for a female cannot be other than a merch,
or gwraig; nor can a male be other than a gwr, or gwas;
i.e., a man in a servile condition, since he is not in the state of wedlock as a husband.
(Gwas does not
necessarily mean a servant; but it was formerly, and it is still partly, used
as a general term for a young man, without any reference to his wordly
position. In the Mabinogion young noblemen are frequently called gweision.
Compare, also, the opening line of the Gododin (sic), - “Gredyf gwr oed gwas.· - S.E.)
Widowhood does not change
the man, nor the woman, into gwas, or merch, according to the conventional
usage of the country. It is right to remember, likewise, that it is customary
throughout Gwent and Morganwg to call peasants and poor children by what are termed
nick-names; thus, Twm, Shôn, Dai, Mocyn, Harri, Wil, Ned, Palws, Sal, Magws,
&c. are made to stand for Thomas, John, David, Henry, William, Edward,
Mary, Sarah, Margaret, &c.
The inhabitants of Gwent and Morganwg have divers modes of giving names to
houses and places, as ty Twm Shôn, ty Bet o’r Cwm, &c. The manner of
calling a place according to its geogrqphical position prevails very
extensively in this country, as Penlan, Pen y pîl, Penhil, Glan rumi, Nantarw,
&c; whilst Dimetia confers a name upon every hut, thus, Treaser,
Trebwrnallt, Treganhaethw, Trewein, Tregadwgan, Trelodan, Treglemais, Treleter,
Treteio, Trewallter, Tredduog, Trefin, Trebufired, Trearched, Tregwynt,
Tremichol, &c., &c.
There is a great difference between the dialects of Menevia and Morganwg.
Throughout the middle and eastern districts the vowel i has almost its full
sound in hundreds of words, as shall be noticed hereafter. Towards the Saxon
border, a certain strangeness dwells on the faces of the men, somewhat similar
to the gloomy appearance that ensues when the sun is hidden by a cloud previous
to its setting in the west.
From Ergyng to Talgoed (Caldicot) one meets with heavy, lanky, and
____________________________________________
(delw 3995)
(tudalen 38)
very ignorant men; and the old people that are there, especially
towards Tre’r Esgob
(in modern Welsh Trefesgob, in English Bishton, 5 miles / 8 kilometres east of
Casnewydd / Newport), speak Welsh, which is unintelligible to the uni-lingual Cymro. They have
so much the English accent, and occasionally an old word like ebargofi ,
that they cause a mixture of grief and astonishment in the bosom of the
visitor.
When he proceeds from Crughywel to Coed y Cymmer, he hears clearly the accent
and pronunciation of the Brecknockian; ar yr un (? = ), lad (gwlad = contry) raig (gwraig = woman, wife)
ferch y forwn ( ?y
ferch y forwyn = the miad), &c, present themselves there very
distinctly.
When we go from Coed y Cymmer through Cwmamman to Pont ar Ddulas, we hear the
pronunciation of the Brecknockian, and that of the boys of Caermarthen. Here
the speech becomes vigorous, and the voice thin, and yn wirionedd fach anwyl
i (= dear me!),
thinci fawr (= thank
you very much) come to light; and in returning, a change will be
perceived towards Margam, and a little after towards Pont Faen.
Then the body of the country is reached, and the tone becomes slow and grave,
the tongue lisps a little, and the voice is thick. Abertawy, Merthyr, and all
the works (= the
uplands where the iron works were situated),
____________________________________________
Cambrian Journal, Volume 4, Year 1857, pages 207-210
(delw 3996)
(tudalen 207)
A
TREATISE ON THE CHIEF PECULIARITIES THAT DISTINGUISH THE CYMRAEG, AS SPOKEN BY
THE INHABITANTS OF GWENT AND MORGANWG RESPECTIVELY,
BY PERERINDODWR
(Continued from page
38)
GRAMMATICAL
PECULIARITIES
I will begin with the letters. A is uttered throughout Gwent to rapidly
- too much like ha. B is articulated properly throughout both provinces;
likewise C, Ch, D, Dd. Too much of the sound H is impatred to E,
F, Ff, G, Ng are pronounced tolerably well; but as for H, it has to answer
several purposes. It is most frequently heard where it stands as an aspirate;
but throughoutthe
rhiad for rhad (=
grace, blessing); so in the following,
Gwiliad (gwyliad
= watch),
Tiad (tad =
father),
Niage (nage = no),
Rhiaff (rhaff =
rope),
Hiaff (? = ),
Cielwydd (celwydd
= celwydd),
Ciader (cadair =
chair),
Miab (mab = son),
Biad (bad = boat),
Griâs (grâs =
grace),
Gwias (gwas = farm
servant),
Miaes (maes =
field),
Cias (cas = he /
she got),
Cieffyl (ceffyl =
horse), &c.
I could not detect any such pronunciation from Penbont ar Ogwr to Pont ar
Ddulas.
L is sounded correctly.
From about Penmarc and Llanddunod to Gwentllwg, Ll is changed, in
respect of sound, to Th, as in arall, which is pronounced arath.
M,N,O,P,Ph,R,S,T,Th,U,W,Y, are sounded properly, except the last three.
The aspirate H is frequently associated with W, as whern for
wern, &c.
The O is not quite free from this peculiarity.
The U is generally uttered quite at variance with its proper
pronunciation; indded, it is not often that we can call the sounds of this
vowel singly by their right names, much less its sounds in composition.
Such is the matter in which the Welsh alphabet is vocalised throughout Gwent
and Morgannwg.
ACCENTUATION.-The accents, ascending, descending,
____________________________________________
(delw 3997)
(tudalen 208)
and circumflex, are as
many in both provinces as might be naturally required.
The ascending accent is found in such words as
cymmanfa (=
meeting, association),
diotta (= drink
alcohol), &c.
the descending in
dilëu (= do
away with);
and the circumflex in
parhâd (=
continuation).
Nature has also taught the inhabitants the proper use of the grave and light
sounds, such as
glàn môr (= sea side),
glân iawn (= very
pretty);
tòn (= wave;
pastureland) and
tôn (= tune),
&c.
In like manner, they have learned the mutation of initial consonants, as Bara,
fy mara, ei bara, ei fara (= bread, my bread, her bread, his bread), &c. All this
prevails through both provinces.
NOUN AND ITS NUMBER.- Substantives
are pronounced pretty much alike through all the districts, with the exception
of a very slight provincial drawl.
Angel (= angel),
gwynt (= wind),
Tâf (= river name),
Ffrainc (= France),
Jerusalem,
dyn (= man),
coed (= wood),
mynydd (= upland),
&c.
have all the common and correct articulation. In respect of the singular number
all the provinces are equal, but in reference to the plural, Gwent loses
ground; thus dyn, dynon; offeriad, offerid. Gwent is tolerably well in brawd,
brodyr, bardd, beirdd, &c.
The termination ion is uttered properly in the western division; the
termination au is pronounced wrongly in the eastern division, where it has the
sound like eu, as angeu, dyddieu. The termination od is the same through both
provinces.
The inhabitants say o’n for oen: and in the plural ŵyn,
which is used alike in all divisions.
The plurals of
bran (= crow),
march (= stallion),
llestr (= dish),
collen (= hazel tree),
plentyn (= child),
namely brain, meirch, llestri, cyll, plant, are by them pronounced
correctly; but they fail in
merchid ed,
hidden (= heidden,
barleycorn) he,
llysodd oedd,
trad aed,
(what is meant here it
that colloquially merched > merchid, heidden > hidden, llysoedd >
llysodd, traed > tra’d),
the plurals of
merch (= girl),
haidd (= barley;
barley plants) (in fact the singulative of this word),
llys (= court),
troed (= foot)
GENDER OF NOUN.- The masculine and feminine genders are tolerably
consistent with the general rules; but the unknown class is very
irregular. Very often they commit sad mistakes in the gender, and vary widely
from what the grammars teach. Asyn is asen, and mwlsyn is asyn,
always through all the divisions.
It is not often that they use the word hwrdd, because they have minharan
instead, whilst dafad is used for the feminine.
The
____________________________________________
(delw 3998)
(tudalen 209)
es is employed pretty correctly, as brenin, brenhines. I do not
remember meeting with a conjunction of name and gender, except in matters
pertaining to the dairy, as hafodwraig and hafodferch. Many hafottai
may be seen throughout Gwent and Morgannwg.
ADJECTIVE.- Under this head
the word peth frequently occurs, as peth drwg, peth mawr, peth
gwan, &c., throughout both districts. Their mode af rendering an adjective
plural is similar to that which refers to substantives,
llas e,
llison ei ion,
main, minon ei io,
noth, noethion, noithon ei io,
trwm, trymon, trwmon ym io,
bychan, bychin ai,
gwan, gwinid ei ai, &c.
COMPARATIVE DEGREES.- This
class is also much in accordance with nature, and there is considerable
accuracy in the arrangement of comparison throughout the country. Tha positive,
comparative and superlative degrees are found to be tolerably regular, as byr,
byrach, byraf; tal, talach, talaf. They use some that are derived from the
comparative, and not from the positive; as agos, nes, nesaf; the
comparitive neasach is sometimes found in this degree. Again, bach,
llai, lleiaf (lliaf). We have also cyn laned, lled dda, mwy mawr, mwyaf.
I know not how the difference, being so little, between the usages of both
provinces on this head can possibly be described.
PRONOUN.- Through Gwent and Morgannwg no first person singular
other than mi,fi, y, I, is used; and ninau, which in the plural
is pronouced ninâ, and in the singular (!) ni, which is all that is heard in the several divisions:
In the second person singular we have ti and tithâ, chi and
chithâ.
Nyninau and chwychwithau are never heard in the colloquial
converstaion of the people.
The third person singular is efe, ef, hi, fe; seldom or never is heard
anything but nhw in the plural.
In the possessive class the custom is to have fy for the first person
singular, and ein in the plural.
In the second person singular they use dy, ‘th and eith; in
the plural, eich, ‘ch (ych), and eiddoch.
In the third person
singular they use ei and eiddo; in the plural eu, and
sometimes eiddont.
Through
____________________________________________
(delw 3999) (tudalen
210)
the region of Morganwg the word hun is very frequently used, as fy hun;
but, in the region of Monmouth, m’ihinan is the most usual form; also hunein
instead of hunain.
The Demonstrative Pronouns, which are generally used, are the
following: -
Singular, hon, hwn, hyn; plural, y rhai’n, y rhai yma.
Hwn yma, hon yma, &c. are never heard in the country, but hwna,
hona and rhai yna, are very frequently used.
Instead of hwnacw and honacw, the people say hwnco and honco.
Hw`nw, hòno and y rhai hyny are in proper use with them.
The Relative Pronouns that are used in both countries are yr hwn, yr
hon, yr hyn, y rhai, y neb, y naill, y llall, y sawl, y rhai hyn, y rhai hyny,
&c.
The Interrogative Pronouns are pwy, pa un, pa rai, pa beth, beth,
&c.
They use the Indefinite Pronouns thus, arath (arall); nall (llall),
naill, pon, rhai, rhwyn (rhywun) rhwrai (rhywrai), llill (lleill),
un. neb, erill (eraill), oll, pawb, &c. These are used
colloquially throughout the country, but an occasional bard is found who uses pronouns
more in accordance with grammar; the same may be said of some of the readers of
Welsh periodicals, and acute men who are in the habit of listening to some
religious minister, famed for the correctedness of his style. Nevertheless,
particular occasions like these will not alter the manners of the thousands who
talk in the vulgar style, following the dialect and custom of the country,
without making an effort to correct themselves.
(to be continued)
(Mae’n debyg na
chwblheuwyd mo’r gyfres yn y diwedd. O leiaf, nid wyf wedi dod ar draws y rhan
olynol yn rhifynnau nesa’r cylchgrawn.)
(But it seems that
in fact it never was! I have found no follow-up in further issues of The
Cambrian Journal).
_________
nodlyfr
559
Sumbolau arbennig: ŷ ŵ
Adolygiadau diweddaraf : latest updates : 24 07 2000
01 02 2002 (cywiro gwallau teipio - typos corrected)
20 07 2002 (cywiro gwallau teipio - typos corrected)
2006-11-05
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