1510e
Cymru-Catalonia - enw lle a grewÿd i ddifyrru'r Saeson / un topònim inventat
per entretenir els anglesos / explanation of this elongated place-name invented
to fool English tourists/éksplønéishøn øv dhis íilonggeitïd pléis-neim invéntïd
tø fuul Íngglish túørists
http://www.theuniversityofjoandeserrallonga.com/kimro/amryw/1_enwau/enwau_lleoedd_cymru_llanfairpwllgwyngyll_1_0510e.htm
0001z Yr
Hafan / Home Page
..........1864e
Y Fynedfa yn Saesneg / English Gateway
...................0010e Y Gwegynllun / Siteplan
..............................1929e Cyfeirddalen â mathau o enwau / Orientation
Page for names by type
.....................................................1995e Cyfeirddalen ag enwau yn ôl gwledydd /
Orientaton Page for names by country
..................................................................1447e Enwau Cymru (tudalen cyfeiriol) / Welsh Names (Orientation Page)
.................................................................................y
dudalen hon / this page
|
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Gwefan
Cymru-Catalonia Llanfair
Pwllgwyngyll |
Adolygiad diweddaraf - latest
update : 04 01 2002 |
0511c Aquesta pàgina en català
xxxx (ddim
ar gael eto) Y tudalen hwn yn Gymraeg
Llanfair (8 letters) ..... Pwllgwyngÿll
(12 letters) ..... goger (5 letters) ..... y (1 letter) ..... chwÿrn (6
letters) ..... drobwll (7 letters) ..... Llantisilio (11 letters) ..... Gogo (4
letters) ..... goch (4 letters)
Note - when y has the pronunciation
[i] we have noted it as ÿ, though it doesn't exist in standard spelling. The y
without an umlaut is an obscure vowel (like the a in 'about').
(1) THE GENUINE NAME AND THE APPEARANCE OF THE FAKE NAME
One of the stereotyped ideas about Wales which English people have is
that the place names are weird, unpronounceable and unnaturally long.
So it's not surprising that Wales has the distinction of having the
longest place name in Britain and the world. Who but the Welsh would have a
place name such as the village name in Môn with 58 letters! However
Welsh-speakers find the fascination of English visitors for this name rather
amusing.
What the tourists generally don't realise is that the name is a
fabrication, put together in the nineteenth century. John Morris-Jones, a Welsh
scholar (1864-1929), who was professor of Welsh at Bangor, had been
brought up in Llanfair Pwllgwyngÿll. In an article for the magazine of
Cymdeithas Hynafiaethwÿr Môn (the Anglesey Antiquarian Society) (the date of
which is unfortunately missing from my notes!) he recounted that in the 1880's
a certain John Williams, a cabinet maker from the village of Tal-y-bont near
Bangor had told him that he recalled a tailor from Y Borth {Porthaethwÿ, or
'Menai Bridge' in English) creating the name. Other accounts state he was a
cobbler. It seems that the idea was to persuade tourists to stop off in the
village on their way to the port of Caergybi (Holyhead) in the north-west of
the island.
The original name of the village is Llanfair, and the full name with a
tag is Llanfair Pwllgwyngÿll. There are many villages in Wales with the name
'Llanfair' (Church of the Virgin Mary), and to differentiate between them it
was usual to add the name of the administrative unit in which it was situated.
In many cases this name now exists only in the place name, and as a name for a
township or territory it has passed into oblivion. Pwllgwyngÿll is the name of
a medieval division.
An example of the correct name in use that I have to hand is on the back
cover of the magazine 'Y Faner Newydd', Rhif / Number 15, Haf / Summer 2000. A
photo of the Garn mountain is credited to "Wyn Griffith, Llanfair
Pwllygwyngyll".
The local name is for Llanfair Pwllgwyngÿll is the reduced form Llanfair
Pwll. Since 1988 the local community
council has adopted this as the offical name of the village (though for some
reason erroneously spelt as one word – Llanfairpwll)
(2) WHAT THE ENGLISH CALL IT
The English call it Llanfair PG. Years ago this form appeared on local
direction signs - to save space, the highway authorities used the form Llanfair
P. G., using the initials of Pwll and Gwyngÿll. A similar example of this
shorthand in North Wales was Llanarmon Dyffrÿn Ceiriog, which became Llanarmon
D. C. on roadsigns. It later found its way onto maps.
The form Llanfair PG was really not necessary since this authentic local
form Llanfair Pwll already existed.
As English people normally do not know a word of Welsh, and usually have
little interest in the language, they naturally insist on pronouncing Welsh
names as if they were English names - but they base this pronunciation on the
written form. Instead of [LHAN-ver], they say [LAN-feø], as if it was made up of
an element 'lan', plus 'fair' (= that is, a weekly market or an amusement
park).
The letter 'f' in Welsh of course always stands for the sound [v], never
[f], which is spelt 'ff'!
Thus to English people it is Lanfare Pee-Gee [LAN-feø pii-JII]
(3) A BRIEF EXPLANATION OF THE ELONGATED NAME
From the starting point of a genuine name with twenty letters, a
nineteen-letter string was added, very untypical of any genuine Welsh place
name ('opposite the rapid whirlpool') (there is a whirlpool in Afon Menai, the
Menai strait, by the village), and after this another place name from the south
of Wales. The neighbouring parish is Llantysilio (Ordnance Survey map
reference: SH/5473) - but there is another one in Ceredigion, distinguished by
the tag Gogo 'of the cave'. Llandysilio Gogo (Ordnance Survey map reference:
SN/3657)
To make this name even more amusing for English-speakers the adjective
'coch' was added. Thus there were three syllables 'go' in succession and a
final 'ch' which nowadays is unpronouncable for most English-speakers (it
occurred though in English in medieval times, as the spellings right, cough,
Vaughan, Gough, lough, indicate)
To make the name even more ridiculous it was spelt without any spacing
between the various elements.
Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogoch
(In the name, the form Llantysilio is used. This is an incorrect form
that was used oficially in the last century. There are six villages bearing
this name in Wales - nowadays the correct form is in use (or at least it is in
Welsh) with a 'd' - Llandysilio).
If the name had been genuine, it would not have been written as a single
word; it would probably have been:
Llanfair Pwllgwyngÿll goger y Chwÿrn Drobwll Llantysilio Gogo Goch
(4) TRANSLATION OF THE NAME
Usually the name is translated as
The Church of Mary of the Pool of White Hazels near the Rapid Whirlpool (and
the) Church of Tysilio of the Red Cave
In fact, the original name means
'Llanfair' in the township of 'Pwllgwyngÿll'
(although it is true that Llanfair is the Church of Mary, and Pwll
Gwyngÿll is the Pool of White Hazels)
(5) COMMENTS
Letter in the Welsh-language paper Y Cymro (Mai 5 1999) (the
letter-writer's name was not mentioned). Alongside the letter is a photo of the
name sign with the ridiculous 58-letter name on the platform of the village
railway station. It appears that there is some kind of 'phonetic' explanation
in English orthography (English being particularly unsuited for respelling
foreign words to indicate the pronunciation because of the very many
inconsistencies in its orthography). I can only say that I agree wholeheartedly
with the writer
Y mae yr arwÿdd
gerbron yr orsaf reilffordd gyda'r enw hiraf yn y bÿd wedi cythruddo mwÿ nag un
o ddarllenwÿr y Cymro. Dyma a ddywedodd un a sgrifennodd atom:
"Y mae amrÿw yn
cael eu cynddeiriogi wrth sylwi ar orsaf y rheilffordd yn Llanfair Pwll. Y
mae'r enw hir arferol yno, wrth gwrs, ond o dan yr enw hwnnw ceir y
fastardiaith a ganlÿn:
Llan-Vire-Pooll-Guin-Gill-Go-Ger-U-Queern-Drob-Ooll-Llandus-Ilio-Gogo-Goch. Y
mae cardiau post gyda darlun o'r orsaf a'r arwÿddbost hir hwn ar werth mewn
siopau ledled gogledd Cymru. Y mae Canolfan Grefftau yn Llanberis hefÿd, sÿdd
yn gwerthu llyfrÿn Saesneg sÿn'n rhoi tipÿn o hanes Beth Gellert!
Pwÿ a wÿr, dichon y
bÿdd arwÿddion eraill yng Nghymru cÿn bo hir yn cyfeirio'r ymwelwÿr i:
Kire-Gub-ee,
Pon-Tup-Reeth a Kire-Deeth a dichon y byddai'n syniad da pwÿso ar y Kun-Ill-Yad
Kened-Lithe-Hole i drefnu fod arwÿddion addas yn cael eu gosod yng ngorsafoedd
mannau del Lynd-Yn, Tsies-Dar a Luf-Yr-Pul ar gyfer ymwelwÿr o Gymru".
Translation: The sign by the railway station with the longest name in
the world has been a source of irritation to more than one reader of 'Y Cymro'.
These are the words of one letter-writer:
"Many people are riled by what they see at the railway station in
Llanfair Pwll. The usual long name is there, of course, but below the name is
the following abomination:
Llan-Vire-Pooll-Guin-Gill-Go-Ger-U-Queern-Drob-Ooll-Llandus-Ilio-Gogo-Goch.
There are postcards with a picture of the station and this long sign on
sale in shops throughout North Wales. There's also a Craft Centre in Llanberis
which sells a booklet in English giving a short history of Beth Gellert [Note:
The village has always been spelt correctly in Welsh Beddgelert 'the grave of
Celert']. Who knows, maybe there will be other signs in North Wales soon
directing tourists to:
Kire-Gub-ee [for: Caergybi], Pon-Tup-Reeth [for: Pont-y-pridd], and
Kire-Deeth [for: Caer-dÿdd] and maybe it would be a good idea to bring pressure
to bear on the Kun-Ill-Yad Kened-Lithe-Hole [Cynulliad Cenedlaethol - the
autonomous 'assembly' (parliament) in Wales] to see to it that suitable signs
are erected in the stations of places such as Lynd-Yn [= London], Tsies-Dar [=
Chester] a Luf-Yr-Pul [= Liverpool] for visitors from Wales".
(6) HOW ENGLISH TOWNS COULD BOOST TOURISM!
Surprisingly no English village or town has followed the example!
But the process of creating ridiculous names is quite simple. This is
how it could be done, on the lines of Llanfair-ac-yn-y-blaen (= Llanfair et
cetera)
1
Suppose we have a name which is already fairly long. Let's choose
'Kingston upon Thames'. Local people call it simply Kingston. But that's too
short. To make it look stranger, we'll spell it as one word. Kingstonuponthames.
This is what has happened with Llanfair (or Llanfair Pwll, or Llanfair
Pwllgwyngÿll). Locally, it would be merely Llanfair usually. Spell it as one
word to make it seem exotic and incomprehensible. Llanfairpwllgwyngÿll.
2
Next we need to add some sort of explicative phrase to extend the name.
What about - 'where the rich people live'?
Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelive
This is what happened with Llanfairpwllgwyngÿll. To it was added 'goger
y chwÿrn drobwll' = opposite the rapid whirlpool.
Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwÿrndrobwll...
3
Next we need to add the name of a town in another part of the country
which resembles the name of a neighbouring town. Upriver from Kingston on
Thames is Henley on Thames. And in the Midlands of England we have Henley in
Arden. Let's add this second name.
Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinarden
4
Next to Llanfair is the parish of Llandysilio (incorrectly spelt as
Llantysilio in the last century). In mid-Wales, in Ceredigion, there's another
name of the same name with the tag 'gogo' (= cave). Llandysilio Gogo. This has
more possibilities for humour.
Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwÿrndrobwllllantysiliogogo
If we add the adjective 'goch' (feminine form of 'coch' = red; 'gogo' =
cave is a feminine noun) to the name we have the
Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwÿrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. 58 letters! 18
syllables!
So lastly we need to add a tag to 'Arden', something which should sound
similar, and thus enhance the ridiculousness of the name. How about 'garden'?
Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinardengarden. 58 letters! 18 syllables!
(The fact that the new name for this English town also has 58 letters
and 18 syllables is pure coincidence. Maybe there is some universal rule for
ridiculous names which I have stumbled across)
5
The next step is to stick the name on the station platform, and
underneath it a phoneticised Welsh version to help Welsh visitors pronounce it.
The pronunciation represented in Welsh will be far off the mark as the two
phonological systems are somewhat different.
Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinardengarden
Cing-styn-ypon-tems-wêr-dhy-ritsh-pî-pyl-lif-hen-li-in-â-dyn-gâ-dyn
Then wait for the tourists!
One of the websites below comments on an attempt to inflict another
nonsense name on Wales (J Bayer Website).
Diesen Ortsnamen wollte man aber noch überbieten durch Neukonstruktion
des folgenden Wortes, um eine Aufnahme in's Guiness Book of Records zu
erreichen - was aber nicht gelang:
Translation of the German text: "Some people wanted to go one
better than this place-name (Llanfair...) with a new construction made up of
the following words, in order to gain a mention in the Guinness Book of Records
- but they were unsuccessful"
"Gorsafawddacha'idraigddanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion"
See our page in this website commenting on this completely ridiculous
name, and the many grammatical errors within it - 0479e
Gorsafawddach
NONSENSE SECTION
Some links about the
village and its false name. Why we include some of these links I'm not sure!
|
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LLUN
/ FOTO |
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01 |
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/airhart/wl_longn.html
TITLE: RICK'S
PICTURES (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) Mae ffoto
o'r pentref i'w weld yn "Rick's Pictures" |
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YNGANIAD
/ PRONUNCIACIÓ |
|
02 |
http://www.nwi.co.uk/llanfair/say.htm TEITL / TITLE:
"How to Say the Name Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantisiliogogogoch" (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) Sut mae
dweud enw'r pentref (neu sut mae dweud yr enw â llediaith Saesneg). Mae hefÿd
ddadansoddiad o'r enw sÿdd ddim yn hollol iawn. (Os daw 'ogo' o 'ogof' pam
mae'r ffurf 'gogo' yn yr enw? Gwelwch ein dadansoddiad ninnau pan ddof o hÿd
i'm hen nodiadau a'u rhoi yma A page which explains
how to pronounce the name. I haven't heard the sound file but following these
instructions you'll end up saying it according to how an English person
thinks Welsh is spoken, and so it sounds radically different from how a
Welsh-speaker would pronounce it (QUESTION: would any
Welsh-speaker be moved to do such a thing? Why entertain foreigners with this
idiotic name? Why make fun of the Welsh language and There is also a
breakdown of the name which is a bit wide of the mark sometimes. Some
inconsistencies: if 'ogo' is from 'ogof' = cave, why is the form 'gogo' in
the name? See our notes above. |
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03 |
http://www.llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/ (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) TITLE:
"The longest URL on the web". |
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"It is
believed that the name Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
was invented by a cobbler from Hynnÿ ÿw,
Lanfare Pee-Gee i'r Saeson. Wedi'r cwbl, does neb o'r 'locals' (chwedl yr
awdur hwn) yn dweud 'Llanfair PG'. Dim ond ein cyfeillion o'r tu hwnt i
Glawdd Offa. Llanfair Pwll (dau air) ddylai fe fod hefÿd, yn hytrach na
Llanfairpwll. I doubt that any
Welsh-born 'local' would call it 'Llanfair P.G.'. English people visiting the
area or who have moved into the area would be the only ones guilty of calling
it 'Lanfare Pee-Gee', I should think. Local people call it
Llanfair Pwll (Note: two words) |
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04 |
http://www.britishadventures.com/decsite.htm TITLE: British
Adventures (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) Rhagor o
falu cachu am Lanfare Pee-Gee. Tair ffoto i dwrisitiaid o Saeson, iddÿn nhw
ddod i nabod Cymru yn well - eglwÿs y plwÿf (eglwÿs y byddigions), Cofgolofn
Nelson, a Cholofn Ardalÿdd Môn (dhø Marcwis of Ángylsi). More nonsense about
Lanfare Pee Gee. Three photos to misrepresent the place - for the edification
of tourists there are such irrelevancies as the Parish Church (the Anglican
Church in Wales is historically the church of the Anglicised gentry and of
English settlers), Nelson's Monument (what connection did Nelson ever have
with Wales?) and The Marquis of Anglesey's Column (member of an estranged
gentry family - an island of Englishness on a Welsh-speaking island). But
have a look anyway! |
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05 |
http://www.menternet.org.uk/llanfair/cyswllt/cyswlltw.htm TITLE: CYSWLLT (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) |
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"Cyswllt
yw enw cymdeithas cymuned y pentref, a sefydlwyd ym mis Mawrth 1994. Prif nod
Cyswllt yw chwarae rôl grwp ambarel ar gyfer cyrff gwirfoddol ac unigolion yn
y pentref sydd am gyfrannu i lwyddiant y gymuned gan ddatblygu cyfleusterau a
gweithgareddau newydd...." Tudalen yn
Gymraeg i drio ein hargyhoeddi fod yna Gymrÿ yn dal i fÿw yn Lanfare Pee-Gee! TRANSLATION:
"Cyswllt" [= connection] is the name of the village community
association, set up in March 1994. The main aim of Cyswllt is to act as an
umbrella group for voluntary bodies and individuals in the village who wish
to contribute to the success of the community through developing new
activities and facilities..." |
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06 |
http://www.data-wales.co.uk/dw37.jpg TITLE:
DATA-WALES |
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vella postal amb una foto des de l'aire del poble (1939) an old postcard with an
aerial view of the village taken in 1939 |
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07 |
http://www.n-e-t.co.uk/~gwyfhs/agytext.htm TITLE: PLWYFI
EGLWYSIG SIR FON / ECCLESIASTICAL PARISHES OF ANGLESEY (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) |
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|
(Cymdeithas
Hel Achau Gwynedd - ond dim ond enw uniaith Saesneg sÿdd yma, 'Gwynedd Family
History Society'. A'r gwefan i gÿd hefÿd, ar wahân i'r teitl. Rhag cywilÿdd!) Map o Fôn
sÿ'n dangos plwÿfi'r ynÿs
The Website (in English
only, apart from four words of Welsh in the title of this page) of the
Gwynedd Family History Society. Shame on them! A map of the parishes of Môn,
if you want to see where Llanfair Pwll is situated |
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08 |
http://britannia.com/celtic/wales/facts/facts6.html#murder More nonsense about this
place name "Translated,
the name reads: the Whoops! Not quite the
correct translation. But who cares? |
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09 |
DEUTSCHE ABTEILUNG /
GERMAN SECTION http://www.weigendorf.de/~bayerj/wales/welsh.htm (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) |
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Kurze Einführung in
die walisische Sprache
Da meine Frau
aus Wales stammt, möchte ich hier die wichtigsten Ausspracheregeln der
walisischen Sprache erklären, die zwar sehr schwer zu erlernen, aber - trotz
der oft befremdenden Schreibung - ziemlich leicht auszusprechen ist... German text: "Since
my wife is from Sound file with the
pronunciation of the name Unfortunately others
have jumped on the bandwagon and have come up with another long name. Diesen
Ortsnamen wollte man aber noch überbieten durch Neukonstruktion des folgenden
Wortes, um eine Aufnahme in's Guiness Book of Records zu erreichen - was aber
nicht gelang: "Gorsafawddacha'idraigddanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion" German text: "Some
people wanted to go one better than this place-name (Llanfair...) with a new
construction made up of the following words, in order to gain a mention in
the Guinness Book of Records - but they were unsuccessful" See our page in this
website commenting on this completely ridiculous name, and the many
grammatical errors within it - Gorsafawddach etc |
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····· |
|
10 |
http://gl15.bio.tu-darmstadt.de/mensa/llanfair.html (05 09 2001 –
page seems no longer to exist) |
|
|
Ein Dorf in Llanfairpwllgwyngÿllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Der
Internationale Vorsitzende von Mensa, Udo Schultz, ist Wales-Fan und kann das
Ungetüm aussprechen... German text: A village
in |
Sumbolau:
a A /
æ Æ / e E / ɛ Ɛ / i I / o O / u U / w W / y Y /
MACRON: ā Ā / ǣ Ǣ /
ē Ē / ɛ̄ Ɛ̄ / ī Ī / ō Ō /
ū Ū / w̄ W̄ / ȳ Ȳ /
BREF: ă Ă / ĕ Ĕ /
ĭ Ĭ / ŏ Ŏ / ŭ Ŭ / B5236: 
B5237: 
BREF
GWRTHDRO ISOD: i̯, u̯
CROMFACHAU: ⟨ ⟩ deiamwnt
ˡ ɑ ɑˑ aˑ a: / æ æ: / e eˑe: / ɛ ɛ: /
ɪ iˑ i: / ɔ oˑ o: / ʊ uˑ u: / ə / ʌ /
ẅ Ẅ / ẃ Ẃ / ẁ Ẁ / ŵ Ŵ /
ŷ Ŷ / ỳ Ỳ / ý Ý / ɥ
ˡ ð ɬ ŋ ʃ ʧ θ ʒ ʤ / aɪ ɔɪ
əɪ uɪ ɪʊ aʊ ɛʊ əʊ / £
ә ʌ ẃ ă ĕ ĭ ŏ ŭ ẅ ẃ ẁ
Ẁ ŵ ŷ ỳ Ỳ
wikipedia, scriptsource. org
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ǣ
---------------------------------------
Y TUDALEN HWN:
kimkat.org/amryw/1_enwau/enwau_cyfenwau_mynegai_0866k.htm
---------------------------------------
Creuwyd: ??
Adolygiad diweddaraf: 25 02 2022
/ 05 09 2001
Delweddau:
Ffynhonnell:
---------------------------------------
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Freefind: |
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On sóc? Esteu visitant una pàgina de la Web CYMRU-CATALONIA (=
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Where am I? You are visiting a page from the CYMRU-CATALONIA (=
Wales-Catalonia) Website
Weə-r äm ai? Yüu äa-r víziting ə peij fröm dhə CYMRU-CATALONIA
(= Weilz-Katəlóuniə) Wébsait
Edrychwch
ar yr Ystadegau / Mireu les estadístiques / See Our Stats